Russia and Putin

Keitsaid:
Scottie said:
Then I find myself questioning this admiration and respect. I'm so used to people in power being total psycho jerks for the most part that it's like I have to find something wrong with Putin. Like, "No! He can't be THAT good!"

How sad is that?

Well, he is best friends with Berlusconi. ;)

italy_berlusconi_putin.jpg


But then, who knows, maybe he is in good relations with him because Berlusconi is "what you see is what you get" type of polititian. And maybe we don't know really why. I do remember that in one of the documentaries about Putin they talked about the time in the 90's when Berlusconi came to Russia for an official visit during a hard period for him (being called a mafioso, having lawsuits, etc). And how he was impressed by Putin, who treated him with respect as if he didn't know about all the allegations. Maybe it is again more of an example of what kind of person Putin is, than anything else.

Damn, St. Vladimir, indeed!:lol:

Btw, not long ago (29th of July this year) Putin marked 1,000 years since the death of St. Prince Vladimir the Great, credited with bringing Christianity to the country during the Middle Ages. ;)

Maybe there is another reason why Berlusconi and Putin are "best friends".
Putin is not an ordinary politician, to say the least.

Before he came into power he worked as a spy for over 20 years and finally headed the FSB for over one year. So you can bet that he learned quite something, first as a spy and later as the director of Russia's intelligence agency. Putin is certainly not naive, especially when deals with people of power, otherwise he would have been gone long time ago. Thus I'm pretty sure, that Putin. more or less, already knew what america is up to, when he became president.

Remember George W. Bush? Putin also seemed to be "best friends" with him.

So lets take a look at how Putin handled Bush over the years.

In this documentary at 33:55, the relationship between Putin and Bush is discussed:

http://www.sott.net/article/296566-PRESIDENT-Putins-15-years-in-power-EN-Subtitles-VIDEO

They met 18 times in 7 years!

Maybe Putin met so often with Bush and was so much "best friend" with him, because Bush was an easy spy target (let's face it; Bush is not the smartest lamp) for Putin, to get as much valuable data as possible. Maybe Putin used his "good relationship" by "getting along with Bush very well" to open Bush up, to tell him sensible stuff?

So maybe the same is true with Berlusconi?

"The flower of safety lies within the perilous thorns: seek safety closest to danger."
His actions speak for themselves. I don't worship him but I admire him & also fear him because he has shown that he can be a very tough person. Nonetheless, him being a politician means that I'll also always retain some reservation.

All that aside, him & Russia are providing some really good counter balance to the ruling western world. I cant really say anything negative about him as I really don't know what about him can be criticized.:huh:

It begs the question of how such a person could rise to such power, especially through the path of intelligence services. You would think he'd have been spotted miles off. He must surely serve some purpose somewhere for it to have been allowed if you believe the saying that nothing significant in politics happens by accident.
Pashalis said:
Maybe Putin met so often with Bush and was so much "best friend" with him, because Bush was an easy spy target (let's face it; Bush is not the smartest lamp) for Putin, to get as much valuable data as possible. Maybe Putin used his "good relationship" by "getting along with Bush very well" to open Bush up, to tell him sensible stuff?

So maybe the same is true with Berlusconi?

"The flower of safety lies within the perilous thorns: seek safety closest to danger."

Or rather "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer".
I think Putin "gets/got along" better with people like Bush and Berlusconi because those two had rather juvenile intellects. That's not to say that Putin has such an intellect, but in the world of global politics, most of the "leaders", especially those in the West, are arrogant, predatory narcissists. Faced with that, I can't blame Putin for 'taking what he can get' and feeling more comfortable with the buffoonish, simple-minded and, in that sense, unpretentious Berlusconis and Bushes of this world.
luke wilson said:
It begs the question of how such a person could rise to such power, especially through the path of intelligence services. You would think he'd have been spotted miles off. He must surely serve some purpose somewhere for it to have been allowed if you believe the saying that nothing significant in politics happens by accident.

True, but while nothing happens by accident, the 'laws' that dictate what DOES happen are not always of human origin. There are, perhaps, universal laws that 'enforce' a certain amount of balance and free will in the universe. Putin may be one example of such a 'law'.
True, but while nothing happens by accident, the 'laws' that dictate what DOES happen are not always of human origin. There are, perhaps, universal laws that 'enforce' a certain amount of balance and free will in the universe. Putin may be one example of such a 'law'.

Ying-yang, in blackest circles there is always some white.
Scottie said:
Laura said:
Thebull said:
Yes a an excellent article which I read earlier today. I find it astounding the skill Putin has shown in managing to avoid been pushed into conflict. Let's hope he can continue to do so as if that happens it would be catastrophic for us all.

He's practically a saint in my book. I would have to have dozens of people around me to keep me from flipping out!

It's funny, actually... I really admire Putin and I have a lot of respect for the guy because of everything he has done against seemingly impossible odds.

Then I find myself questioning this admiration and respect. I'm so used to people in power being total psycho jerks for the most part that it's like I have to find something wrong with Putin. Like,"No! He can't be THAT good!"

How sad is that?

St. Vladimir... I like it!
:lol:

"YES! He can be THAT good!"

Russian president to Turkish ambassador: "tell your dictator President he can go to hell along with his ISIS terrorists, I will make Syria a 'Big Stalingrad' for him!"
http://awdnews.com/top-news/russian-president-to-turkish-ambassador-tell-your-dictator-president-he-can-go-to-hell-along-with-his-isis-terrorists,-i-will-make-syria-a-big-stalingrad-for-him

The Moscow Times-- The Russian president Vladimir Putin broke the accepted diplomatic protocols and has personally summoned the Turkish ambassador to Moscow, Mr Ümit Yardim, and warned him that the Russian Federation shall sever the diplomatic relations immediately unless the Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan stops supporting ISIS rebels in Syria, where Russia holds its last navy base in the Mediterranean sea.

The Russian president purportedly went into a long diatribe criticizing the Turkish foreign policy and its malevolent role in Syria, Iraq and Yemen by supporting Saudi-backed al-Qaeda terrorists, reported the Moscow Times, which escalated the conversation with the Turkish ambassador to a fierce polemic.

According to The leaked information obtained by The Moscow Times, the meeting between the Mr.Purin and Turkish ambassador was imbued with intense mutual resentment where Mr. Yardim has repudiated all Russian accusations, laying blame on Russia for Syria's bitter and protracted civil war."..then tell your dictator president he can go to hell along with his ISIS terrorist and I shall make Syria to nothing but a 'Big Stalingrad' , for Erdoğan and his Saudi allies are no vicious than Adolf Hitler," replied Vladimir Putin in the 2-hour closed door meeting with Turkish emissary.

How hypocrite is your president as he advocates democracy and lambaste the military coup d'état in Egypt, added Mr. Putin, and he simultaneously condones all terrorist activities aimed to overthrow Syrian president!
The Russian president continued by saying that his country won't abandon Syrian legitimate administration and will cooperate with its allies ,namely Iran and China , to find a political solution to Syria's interminable civil war which descended the 23-million Arab nation to an utter ethnic and religious anarchy.


Russia unveils plan for anti-ISIS coalition at Doha meeting
http://rbth.com/international/2015/08/04/russia_unveils_plan_for_anti-isis_coalition_at_doha_meeting_48261.html

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has outlined a Russian initiative for the formation of a united force intended to combat the rise of ISIS militants in Syria and Iraq. However, Russian analysts say that Moscow’s proposal, presented at a meeting of foreign ministers from Russia, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia in Doha on Aug. 3, is unlikely to see support from the Americans and their regional allies.

Moscow has proposed the creation of a united front to fight against the Islamic State militant group (ISIS), which would include, in addition to the Iraqi and Kurdish forces, Syrian government troops loyal to President Bashar Assad, bringing all anti-jihadist forces together into a coalition.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov disclosed details of the Russian plan for the first time at a meeting of foreign ministers from Russia, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia in the Qatari capital Doha on Aug. 3. The plan was first mentioned by Russian President Vladimir Putin in late June of this year.



The Russian proposal aims to unite the efforts of the Syrian and Iraqi armies, Kurdish militias and other regional forces. However, the big stumbling block here is the question of the fate of the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, whom the United States and a number of Gulf States want to remove from power yet is a staunch ally of Moscow.

Lavrov said in Doha that Moscow feels that the use of “only air strikes (conducted against ISIS by U.S.-led coalition forces) is insufficient,” and that
“it is necessary to form a coalition of like-minded people, including from those ‘on the ground’ with weapons in hand fighting against this terrorist threat.”

“And that includes the Syrian and Iraqi armies and the Kurds,” he said.
According to a statement released by the Russian Foreign Ministry, the coalition against ISIS must be formed on “a coherent international legal basis,” which means only with a UN Security Council mandate.

Lavrov said that the question of Russia’s support of Assad is no longer relevant, since at recent meetings held in Geneva on the Syrian issue, “the international community, including members of the UN Security Council, Turkey, the EU, and the Arab countries, agreed to a transitional political period, and not to a regime change in Syria...”


Russian Airborne Troops chief says paratroopers ready to help Syria in combating terrorism
http://tass.ru/en/russia/812480

Colonel-General Vladimir Shamanov said that help would be rendered should such a decision be made by Russia's leadership

The Russian Airborne Troops are ready to assist Syria in countering terrorists, if such a task is set by Russia’s leaders, commander of the Airborne Troops Colonel-General Vladimir Shamanov told reporters on Tuesday.

"Of course we will execute the decisions set forth by the country’s leadership, if there is a task at hand," Shamanov said, in response to a Syrian reporter’s question about the readiness of the Russian Airborne Troops to render assistance to Syria’s government in its battle against terrorism.

Shamanov noted that Russia and Syria have "long-term good relations." "Many Syrian experts, including military, received education in the Soviet Union and in Russia," Shamanov added.
angelburst29 said:
Russian president to Turkish ambassador: "tell your dictator President he can go to hell along with his ISIS terrorists, I will make Syria a 'Big Stalingrad' for him!"
http://awdnews.com/top-news/russian-president-to-turkish-ambassador-tell-your-dictator-president-he-can-go-to-hell-along-with-his-isis-terrorists,-i-will-make-syria-a-big-stalingrad-for-him

The Moscow Times--

I'm very skeptical about this story. Not only is it out of character for Putin, Moscow Times isn't a very credible source, and Gordon Duff has been spreading the story for a couple days... Can anyone find a credible source that supports it?
Approaching Infinity said:
angelburst29 said:
Russian president to Turkish ambassador: "tell your dictator President he can go to hell along with his ISIS terrorists, I will make Syria a 'Big Stalingrad' for him!"
http://awdnews.com/top-news/russian-president-to-turkish-ambassador-tell-your-dictator-president-he-can-go-to-hell-along-with-his-isis-terrorists,-i-will-make-syria-a-big-stalingrad-for-him

The Moscow Times--

I'm very skeptical about this story. Not only is it out of character for Putin, Moscow Times isn't a very credible source, and Gordon Duff has been spreading the story for a couple days...

Exactly.

Approaching Infinity said:
Can anyone find a credible source that supports it?

Nope... I think it is a hoax
Approaching Infinity said:
angelburst29 said:
Russian president to Turkish ambassador: "tell your dictator President he can go to hell along with his ISIS terrorists, I will make Syria a 'Big Stalingrad' for him!"
http://awdnews.com/top-news/russian-president-to-turkish-ambassador-tell-your-dictator-president-he-can-go-to-hell-along-with-his-isis-terrorists,-i-will-make-syria-a-big-stalingrad-for-him

The Moscow Times--

I'm very skeptical about this story. Not only is it out of character for Putin, Moscow Times isn't a very credible source, and Gordon Duff has been spreading the story for a couple days... Can anyone find a credible source that supports it?

I first read the article at this site:

Putin slams Erdogan on his policies in Syria
http://theiranproject.com/blog/2015/08/05/putin-slams-erdogan-on-his-policies-in-syria/
angelburst29 said:
I first read the article at this site:

Putin slams Erdogan on his policies in Syria
http://theiranproject.com/blog/2015/08/05/putin-slams-erdogan-on-his-policies-in-syria/

They are just repeating what Moscow Times has reported.
Approaching Infinity said:
angelburst29 said:
Russian president to Turkish ambassador: "tell your dictator President he can go to hell along with his ISIS terrorists, I will make Syria a 'Big Stalingrad' for him!"
http://awdnews.com/top-news/russian-president-to-turkish-ambassador-tell-your-dictator-president-he-can-go-to-hell-along-with-his-isis-terrorists,-i-will-make-syria-a-big-stalingrad-for-him

The Moscow Times--

I'm very skeptical about this story. Not only is it out of character for Putin, Moscow Times isn't a very credible source, and Gordon Duff has been spreading the story for a couple days... Can anyone find a credible source that supports it?

Each of you are correct and I apologize for the error.

Moscow denies Putin called Erdogan 'dictator'
http://www.newsfultoncounty.com/politics/news/056637-moscow-denies-putin-called-erdogan-dictator

– Russian president’s spokesman refutes media reports that Putin summoned Turkish ambassador, called Turkish President Erdogan a ‘dictator’



MOSCOW – Kremlin has denied media reports that Russian President Vladimir Putin called his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan a “dictator”.

“The news stories published on some websites, claiming that Putin summoned Turkish Ambassador Umit Yardim, and called Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan a dictator are not true,”Putin’s press spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters at a teleconference Wednesday.

Peskov also denied reports that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad asked Putin to send Russian troops to Syria, adding that such a deployment was not on their agenda.
As I was looking at the news today I noticed thatAlexander Lukashenko flew to Sochi in Russia to have a talk with Putin about the dangerous situation in Belarus. Then something occurred to me for the first time. How come that Putin (and government) seems to meet up and discuss important matters with high ranking foreign leaders in Sochi, of all places? Is it just me who has noticed that a lot of important matters seem to be discussed in Sochi now? It seems to me that Sochi has sort of become a "second Moscow" or something for quite some time now. Over the last couple of years we could hear a lot of important stuff (both internationally speaking as well as nationally?) that seems to have been discussed in Sochi rather than in Moscow or Saint Petersburg for that matter. I would like to know; Was it always that way? Anyone knowing that? It seems to me that the quite apparent "switch to" Sochi might have taken place ever since the city was basically rebuilt in 2014 due to the Winter Olympics .

Could it be that under the cover of preparing and building for the Winter Olympics in 2014, there was far more going on in terms of building and implementing certain safety measures or something? Maybe the Olympics were a good opportunity for Putin and government to build up something there that pertains to national and international security and other matters to discuss them outside the established centers such as Moscow? Or speculating further, is there something near Sochi that makes this place preferable? Like a secret monastery or something?

Or is Sochi just simply a far better place to meet up and make important decisions because it is located at a place that is better reachable, logistically and travel wise? Or is it simply because of other mundane reasons such as Putin being in the area at that point in time (or will be in the area in his next appointment) and thus it is logistically better to meet up there, instead of Moscow? And/Or just because Russia is so huge and you need more places than just Moscow in order for foreign and internal leaders to not have to travel so long? Or Putin wants to help the economy there by holding important meetings there and hold the city up as important after the Olympics?

Maybe a look at the map helps:

Unbenannt das.jpg


Looking at the map in the example of this recent meeting between Lukashenko and Putin in Sochi one would think that Moscow would far less of a hustle logistically and time wise speaking. Minsk is pretty much in the center of Belarus. Why not fly to Moscow, which is far nearer? Flying to Sochi might even mean to have to fly over Ukraine (dangerous) and it is much farther away. I would guess that the plane didn't fly over Ukraine and instead made an even bigger detour through Russia instead. Looking at the map, Sochi is also much nearer to the hotspots in the Middle East.

Anyway, I just wanted to mention it in case it holds any significants.
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在过去的几年中我们可以听到很多of important stuff (both internationally speaking as well as nationally?) that seems to have been discussed in Sochi rather than in Moscow or Saint Petersburg for that matter. I would like to know; Was it always that way?

Well, this residency isn't recent. It was built in the Soviet times.Here'sa short description:

In addition to his main residence, Putin has a number of residences throughout Russia. One of the most widely publicized is Bocharov Ruchey in Sochi.

Completed in 1955, it was commissioned by Kliment Voroshilov, a Soviet marshall and strongman under Joseph Stalin. This government dacha was frequented by Soviet leaders such as Khrushchev and Brezhnev. In modern Russia, Bocharov Ruchey became an official summer residence of Russia’s president, and it’s the only government dacha on the Black Sea.

Apparently also during the Soviet rule the residency received important guests and leaders from the Soviet block, and more recently in 2008 Putin met there with Bush, and in 2009 Medvedev met there with Merkel, and thenin 2017 Putin met there with Erdogan.

I would guess that the plane didn't fly over Ukraine and instead made an even bigger detour through Russia instead.

Yes, indeed. Here's the map of the detour, and apparently Russian Aerospace Forces were responsible for securing Lukashenko's flight.

photo_2020-09-14_14-15-12.jpg


Could it be that under the cover of preparing and building for the Winter Olympics in 2014, there was far more going on in terms of building and implementing certain safety measures or something? Maybe the Olympics were a good opportunity for Putin and government to build up something there that pertains to national and international security and other matters to discuss them outside the established centers such as Moscow?

Funny that you'd say that!;-D

There is thisshort video(in Russian), where someone asked Khazin about huge amount of money that was spent on the Winter Olympics. And Khazin invited this person to consider the possibility that large sums of money could be infused into such projects for the purpose of building and creating facilities in various locations, and in order to avoid undesirable attention from the "unfriendly" eyes.;-)
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